The Shroud Underground

Well, the criticism is that I couldn't make it all the way through the piece... remember (and damned if I don't feel arrogant for thinking I have something worth lecturing you on when you've been doing this almost as long as I've been alive) a lot of getting your story into a pub is editorial taste.

That long, dramatic build-up type of story? Not a big fan. I can't even tell how well you pulled it off because I don't read those types of tales for fun. But damned if I'm going to ask for 5k-word stories (which always seem to be a lot of work for me) and not give the writer anything more than "this isn't right for my pub..." I wouldn't take my rejection too seriously unless you hear the same thing back from a few more editors.

Having said that, if It wasn't for professional writers like you, I wouldn't be giving personal rejects anymore. I've been lucky to only come across a couple bad apples in two years of editing.

L.

I sincerely appreciate your candor. I think there is so much value in you coming on the boards and sharing your perspective with us. This is a good discussion. Thanks.

Tim

shroud wrote:L.

I sincerely appreciate your candor. I think there is so much value in you coming on the boards and sharing your perspective with us. This is a good discussion. Thanks.

Tim

Well, that's why I did it. I gave it some hard thought before posting but come on... every message board any of us has been on has had at least one 'shitty rejection letter' thread, right? I don't know about ya'll, but I've never heard an editor pipe up in the middle of one of those threads and go 'hey, that's mine!' and talk about it.

And you know damn well that as close-knit as the horror community is, I'm not the first editor to come across one of his 'love notes' being mentioned on a board he's visiting. I'm all about the uncharted territory, Tim.

We recently had something like this happen on Cafe Doom. A lot of us were in a colorful discussion over our stories for BITS OF THE DEAD. No one said anything mean or stupid, however we were a tad more candid than we would have been if we thought the editor would google himself one day and find out a bunch of peopl were talking about him. Which he did.

Luckily no harm was done, as I said no one was being a dick about being rejected, just mild venting (at worst). Still, I think everyone had a collective "oh shit" moment. It was like being caught passing notes in class!

Natalie L. Sin wrote:Still, I think everyone had a collective "oh shit" moment. It was like being caught passing notes in class!

I didn't find this to be an "oh shit" moment, so much as a refreshing one---nothing "behind-the-back" or overly candid was said by anyone, and it's refreshing to see an editor taken to task for his words (something that we authors are all too familiar with;)

While I'm still not entirely convinced that there wasn't a hint of meanness in the rejection, or that the criticism was particularly constructive, I give kudos to L. for stepping up and sharing his thoughts on the matter!

I count myself lucky in that I've only received three rejection letters so far, they were all for the same story and two of them were positive:

"Hello again,

It was my mistake for not replying when I said I
would.

At any rate, I'm going to pass on Mr. F***ing
Bothersome. The extreme nature didn't bother me. The
"f***ing bothersome" refrain, however, did; I'd pick
your 4 favorite instances and lose the rest. Also
wished the narrator had a wider, more tangible scope
and modus operandi.

These are just my feelings, of course. Another editor
might feel something completely different. Keep trying
with this story, and keep me in mind for future
submissions. I don't say this to everyone who submits.

That's all for now, and thanks ...

Until next time,

Kevin"

Letter number two:

"Hey Dave,

Thank you for your submission, but I'm going to have to pass on this one. It was a well-written story and a very interesting premise but just not what I'm looking for with the anthology."

And now for something completely different (key up the Monty Python theme), my third rejection letter (with the heading in all caps "REJECTION" (may as well have an exclamation point after the heading lol)):

"Dave,

I thought a writer would have known this already but I'll tell you anyway, you can't use the title Mr._F***ing_Bothersome for a Word document. Why? Well, a computer thinks the file is an application called Mr with the extension _F***ing_Bothersome. The PERIOD or FULL STOP in the filename being the culprit. As far as why I'm rejecting it, well you've probably guessed, I found it pretty 'fucking bothersome' (couldn't resist). But all levity aside, that's not entirely why I rejected it - it was more to do with not addressing the main thrust of the guideilnes. It was merely a bloke who was dissatisfied with the world. Not a bloke who had transcended spiritualism. The voice you use seems a little forced, as if you've read too much of De Sade.

Sorry to be the bearer of such bad news.

Mike"

Entirely unprofessional rejection letter aside, of course I followed the "main thrust" of Mike's guidelines to the tee as it consisted of imagining a world without religion, not transcending religion. They're two different concepts entirely. I did take my story's resemblance to De Sade as a masked compliment, however. LOL!

Mr. F***ing Bothersome did eventually find a home in a printed anthology whose editor wrote that the story was "absolutely wonderful" and that after having read the story he was "tickled pink".

I've never had a bad rejection (Well, all rejections are bad...). I mean nothing where the editor was anything but professional.

I've had stories held at places for really (really!) long times before being rejected, which can suck. The longer a story is held, the more hope I have that it is going to be accepted, so those rejections are always a kick in the balls.

I don't like form rejections, but I can see why they are used. I prefer when the editor points out what she doesn't like, makes some suggestions, gives some kind of feedback, etc.

I suppose the worst rejection I got (from sheer embarrassment) was when I had a character knock out another one with a "flapjack" instead of a "blackjack". Unfortunately, the editor noticed the, ah, error.

I've been trying to crack Black Ink Horror for a few years now. Tim Manning, by far, gives the best rejections I've received so far.
Here's a couple examples:

""Dear Nathaniel:

My sincerest apologies for the lengthy delay. I recently found myself buried beneath the slush pile and, as I respond to each submission personally, it has taken a while to dig myself out of it.

Many thanks for sending "Sauce on the Side" my way. I found the story to be well written with an excellent pacing. I thought the idea of featuring a cocky competitive eater as the the "antagonist" was quite an original, and l liked the dynamic you created between he and his wife. You described him quite well, and I could easily picture this cocky behemoth as he sauntered into the diner. The twist at the end was cool, and the story reminded me of something I might read in a Tales from the Crypt comic.

Unfortunately, I tend to receive a lot of stories with this same premise. As soon as it was made clear that Curtis was a jerk, and Tonya was getting sick of him, it seemed inevitable that he would get his "just desserts" at the conclusion of the piece. Considering that he was a professional eater, the fact that it would be something in the food seemed academic. Although the story was well done and certainly enjoyable, I'm looking for more original themes. As a result, I'm going to have to pass.

The above comments represent my opinion only, and another editor may disagree. Again, I enjoyed the tale, but I've read just too many stories where a wife kills her jerk of a husband. I'm guessing that another editor will find it more suitable.

Many thanks for submitting,

Tim Manning
Editor Black Ink Horror""

And Another:

""Dear Nathaniel:

Personally, I think that beer guts are underrated (I'm working on an impressive one myself).

Many thanks for sending "Out to Pasture" my way. First off, let me apologize for the long (and unreasonable) wait. Truth be told, I just discovered your story while combing through my email folders. My fault completely.

Overall, I found your story to be very well written with a very unique idea. After reading two dozen stories about vampires, zombies, or psychotic killers, it is SO nice to receive a tale that dares to be different. I love how you jumped right into the action, then backtracked to show how Walter got into this situation. You had my attention from the first paragraph, and I read the rest of the tale with interest.

I did feel a little let down by the ending, however. With all of the excellent build-up, I was eager to see how it would pan out, excited to see what final twist you had to offer. Unfortunately, I was a bit surprised when I reached the end and there was no more. Personally, I'm not usually fond of stories that end before the tale is concluded, leaving the climax up to the reader's imagination. I think that part of the problem was I was a victim of my high expectations for the piece. I was hoping for some final confrontation where Walter not only conquers the devil, but his personal demons.

Overall, "Out to Pasture" has many merits, but it just didn't wow me the way that I was hoping. As a result, I'm going to have to pass.

The above comments represent only my opinion; another editor may completely disagree. I have a funny feeling that another market may snatch this up.

Many thanks for submitting,

Tim Manning
Editor Black Ink Horror""

And here's one from Amand Debord at Black Ink Horror. I got two rejections for one story:

""Dear Mr. Lambert,

Thank you for your submission to Black Ink Horror. I apologize for my delay in responding. Tim and I are finally starting to catch up with submissions, so hopefully, we won't have such a long wait in the future. We appreciate your patience.

I thought your story was very well written and enjoyable. In particular, I was struck by your characterization of Tonya. Just by adding such a small detail (that wasn't really necessary to the plot of the story while not detracting from it) like her enjoying driving in the country, you really made her character some alive. Her disgust with Curtis was palpable, and by the end, I too was ready for him to have a massive coronary.

However, it was his death that was a real drawback for me. We get so many stories where either the man is killed by the wife for being a total bore, or the wife is killed by the husband for being a cold bitch. While it was totally appropriate the way that she dispatched him, I just felt like it wasn't something that would fit with our magazine. It just needed a little something more to make it stand out.

However, this is only one editor's opinion. Your story really didn't have much wrong with it - it's only that I don't feel it's right for Black Ink Horror. I encourage you to try submitting it elsewhere. I'm sure it will find a good home.

Best of luck in all your writing endeavors,
Amanda DeBord
Editor""

At the moment, I've only submitted to two magazines ever. I've only been writing with the intent of being a story teller for two years now, and one of those years I was stuck in a hospital bed with a tumor that ate 5 vertebrae. In all honesty, one of my stories that I wrote during chemo in order to break the chemo side effect known as "chemo head" (basically, it gives you temporary ADHD, makes it hard to focus, or to even think straight enough to write anything at all). I wrote the story "Shadows in the Snow" as a breaker for that in order to work more on my novel/novella in progress. It took me about 30 minutes to really get down, and then I left it alone for a few days other than correcting some bad grammar and spelling.

Shroud then found me on Myspace, which I thought was a good sign that the guys here cared about the actual fans of the genre, so I decided I'd send in that story in order to get my first rejection letter from a good looking magazine. I liked the story, but I have a habit of selling myself short, so I was blown away when Tim emailed me saying "Good stuff!" instead of "Good god...".

However, I still haven't gotten a real rejection letter. But I did have a story that got rejected by proxy. A magazine that I sent a story to recently, as in last week, suddenly folded on me, so that was my first unofficial rejection.

Worst rejection I've ever gotten in general though...

"I love you like a sister." This was after being close friends with the girl for two years, and being the go-to guy when it came down to "I need a guy to go do this with me!"

Yeah, that stunted my emotional development when it came to women for about two years, and it still bothers me eight years later. I'll write a story about it someday, most likely with a brain eating monster...

I had one rejection where the editor said my idea was something that Saul Bellow might have handled nicely...but I was no Saul Bellow.

Another editor rejected my story, but asked me to glance his magazine's style guide and give it a quick edit for him.

clay griffith wrote:I had one rejection where the editor said my idea was something that Saul Bellow might have handled nicely...but I was no Saul Bellow.

Another editor rejected my story, but asked me to glance his magazine's style guide and give it a quick edit for him.

Dear lawdy that's funny!

Can't say I've ever had a bad rejection - I'm lucky enough either to have had mostly personalised scribbles (always nice) or form rejections. However, I used to work as a stage actor, and my favourite crit came after a rehearsal for The Lion in Winter. The cast were sat around in a circle, and the director went round each of us giving brief notes, along the lines of...

"Ben, nice interplay, but pick up the pace a little."
"Ed, you're going over the top at the end of Act One. We're supposed to leave them on the edge of thier seats, not rolling around the aisles with laughter."
"Isobel, fine, but don't let her be a victim in Act Two."
"Rick... erm..."
"Yes?"
"Rick, how can I put this? Try to be a bit less... erm... bad, and a bit more good".

It was excellent advice, and I followed it. I carry it over into my writing too. All my editing boils down to is how I can make this piece less bad, and more good.

I've been very fortunate in that the majority of rejections I've received have had some kind of helpful, encouraging advice to go with it - either specific advice on how to improve the story, or an invitation to submit again.

The best rejection I got was from Cutting Block Press, for a story I'd submitted to their HORROR LIBRARY VOL. 3 anthology. The editor spelled out what was wrong with the story, then invited me to submit something else. He also said if I made some changes to the original story he'd look at it again. I went through the story with his suggestions in mind, made the changes...and they bought it.

Blu

Luckily my rejections have been on par with a pat on the back and "good try" sort of response which has a bitter aftertaste but at least goes down smooth. I'm interested in how I'd react if an editor completely ripped my writing apart in a rejection letter. Hell, I don't even take losing on those scratch-off lottery tickets well.

All kidding aside, I just enjoy every aspect of the writing experience. I've been writing for years now and only recently, maybe a little less than a year, have I started getting more serious about it. I've had a few flash pieces accepted and just got my first short story nod from Black Ink Horror about a week ago. It was by far the best acceptance letter I've ever got and really gave me more confidence in my abilities.

That leaves me wondering, is it our dark personalities that gear us for this great genre that has caused this long topic on rejections instead of acceptances or are those wonderful letters of acceptance just too far and few between to warrant a topic on the forums? I'd like to see some bragging.

OK. I'll bite. My three proudest moments for acceptances:

-- I had a story I wrote about nine years ago at the time, and I dusted it off when I was on leave from Afghanistan. I'd been publishing a bit since deploying, so I figured let's see if the old stuff has any game. I made almost no modifications to the piece, and I got an acceptance the day after I sold it.

-- I sent a story to Bewildering Stories about a punk band and some ghouls (its the opening story to my collection, BTW). I sent it out late at night and then ran off to bed because my wife was feeling frisky. I woke up early the next morning and checked my mail, and they had already accepted the piece, pending my editing out the bad words I used.

-- Third, the story I have appearing in Abominations, since I worked on it for over a year and it was my first piece written drawing on my Celtic roots.