The Shroud Underground

Tom Piccirilli · Disciple Joined: 19 Mar 2008 Posts: 45

I usually start a thread on noir & crime whenever I hit a new board. Just wondering what folks here think of that dark, bleak, occasionally offbeat subgenre of crime & horror we call noir. In some respects it's more black and horrifying than horror--a story where some nice guy schlep gets caught up in events that spiral further and further ou of control until all hope is dashed. Fun!
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Tom Piccirilli is the author of twenty novels including THE COLD SPOT, THE MIDNIGHT ROAD, THE DEAD LETTERS, and A CHOIR OF ILL CHILDREN. Learn more at: www.tompiccirilli.com

**shroud** · Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:49 am Post subject:

Excellent question. I love noir, absolutely love it. While I usually attach myself to any story that has happy endings (ya know what I mean!) the sheer romantic aspect of noir makes it a formidable genre!
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Tom Piccirilli · Disciple Joined: 19 Mar 2008 Posts: 45

Also for any film noir fans here, Amazon is having a huge sale on noir DVDs. I just picked up the NOIR COLLECTION Vol. 4, featuring 10 noir films with commentary and features, for 50% off. Other titles I noticed on sale were LAURA, I WAKE UP SCREAMING, FALLEN ANGEL, WHERE THE SIDEWALK ENDS, and at least a dozen others, down from $15+ to about $8. If you have any interest, I suggest you grab 'em while you can, cheap.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=pe_13640_8598740_hi_img_1/?&docId=1000118241
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Tom Piccirilli is the author of twenty novels including THE COLD SPOT, THE MIDNIGHT ROAD, THE DEAD LETTERS, and A CHOIR OF ILL CHILDREN. Learn more at: www.tompiccirilli.com

John P. Wilson · Disciple Joined: 19 Mar 2008 Posts: 44

I agree, noir and crime fiction can be darker than horror. James M. Caine's "The Postman Always Rings Twice" completely took me by surprise. I'd never heard of it before I read it, so...whoa. John D. McDonald's "Cape Fear" was a fantastic read. "The Green Ripper" may be my favorite novel. It's a great place for the writer to experiment with psychological terror. Rex Miller's "Slob" was great, but all the Chaingang novels are. Frank Miller is cool too. You're not planning a new noir novel are you Tom? I hope you do. That would be awesome.

Here's a question: Would you consider "Silence of the Lambs" to be noir?
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Tom Piccirilli · Disciple Joined: 19 Mar 2008 Posts: 45

Following THE COLD SPOT in April, there will be a second in the series entitled THE COLDEST MILE, due out in about a year. THE FEVER KILL is still available alhough quantities are limited (heh heh, I always wanted to say that...makes the book sound like a Bamboo Steamer).

I really don't think that SILENCE OF THE LAMBS is noir. Noir has a certain bleakness of character...a protagonist coming apart at the seams, drawn to he worst elements of himself, spiralling out of control, and generally ends with his dissolution or death. I do think that RED DRAGON has a very noirish feel to it, since Will Graham is a burn-out protagonist who exhibits everything I just said above.
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Tom Piccirilli is the author of twenty novels including THE COLD SPOT, THE MIDNIGHT ROAD, THE DEAD LETTERS, and A CHOIR OF ILL CHILDREN. Learn more at: www.tompiccirilli.com

John P. Wilson · Disciple Joined: 19 Mar 2008 Posts: 44

Can't wait to read them. I guess I'll have to "act now" to get The Fever Kills before supplies run out. Laughing

I agree with you about Silence of the Lambs.
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"You feel lucky? Well, do you, punk?"

zgraves · Initiate Joined: 19 Mar 2008 Posts: 9 Location: San Diego

Thanks for the spiraling out of control tip! Noir is cool. I suppose I loved Albert Camus and Kafka because they were actually noir authors, and I never even realized it! The Stranger (better titled earlier as "The Outsider") blew my mind for days after reading it. So did The Trial. I show my college kids a European film version of The Trial, and they must think I'm nuts when I laugh my ass off watching it. I think noir is cool when it also has a lot of satire/humor elements. Europeans have a really nice, subtle humor that sometimes goes over American heads.
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Efraim Z. Graves
"A book is the axe to break the frozen sea within," Kafka

John P. Wilson · Disciple Joined: 19 Mar 2008 Posts: 44

I didn't know The Trial was a movie. I'll have to check that out. The Outsider was a very disturbing novel. Have you ever read any Milan Kundera? If not, give The Joke a shot. You might like it.
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"You feel lucky? Well, do you, punk?"

zgraves · Initiate Joined: 19 Mar 2008 Posts: 9 Location: San Diego

Thanks, John. I'll do that. I like what Milan says about Kafka, "He should be read like history, not like fiction." Exclamation

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Efraim Z. Graves
"A book is the axe to break the frozen sea within," Kafka

KevinLucia · Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 3:33 pm Post subject:

I loved Red Dragon. Fienes and Norton were awesome.

Natalie L. Sin · Inquisitor Joined: 21 Mar 2008 Posts: 76

I just finished a noir novellete! Or novella, it's really on the edge. Which brings up a question that has been driving me nuts. Where do I send it? It's from the perspective of the "bad" guy and his love interest, though the criminal aspect is not the focus. I would really love to place this story, but so far none of the dark fiction markets I've seen scream noir.

Admittedly, this might not be "hard" noir. There is bleakness, but the characters end up spiraling out rather than into it by the end. Although they do so in an incredibly fucked up way.

Oh, and the book "NOIR" kicked ass. I especially liked the first story about the woman with *ahem* intimacy issues. Shocked

Phil Kuhlman · Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject:

I'm working on a story that blends Noir with Lovecraftian themes. I'm only so far in, but the few people that have read it so far have seemed to like it and said it's on the right track. The trick is thinking of the story in black and white instead of color when you're writing it.

"Touch of Evil" is probably my favorite of the Noir films, though I do have a soft spot for the original Mike Hammer movies. Especially "Kiss Me Deadly"

Tom Piccirilli · Disciple Joined: 19 Mar 2008 Posts: 45

TOUCH OF EVIL is a brilliant film. One of the best out there. My fave film noir is probably SUNSET BOULEVARD, although OUT OF THE PAST is a close second.

Check out Craig McDonald's HEAD GAMES, which features a scene where the protagonist meets his ex-lover Great Garbo on set of TOUCH OF EVIL and winds up getting drunk and into a fist fight with Orson Welles. A lot of fun stuff like that plays throughout the book.
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Tom Piccirilli is the author of twenty novels including THE COLD SPOT, THE MIDNIGHT ROAD, THE DEAD LETTERS, and A CHOIR OF ILL CHILDREN. Learn more at: www.tompiccirilli.com

Phil Kuhlman · Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 8:35 am Post subject:

That sounds really cool actually, I'll add that to the list, and actually push it up to the top. I haven't gotten to watch Sunset Ave. yet, but my friend has it on that TCM dvd set that came out a couple years back so I'll ask if I can borrow it.

Cool story about my hometown of San Antonio. Apparently downtown some years ago, HG Wells was actually visiting the city, and asked a young man for directions, turned out that young man was Orson Wells. The two had never met before, and this was after the war of the worlds was turned into a radioplay, so the two actually hit it off pretty well and had lunch to discuss all that stuff. That may have been one of the things that got me into noir as a kid, hearing about how two of the greatest creative minds of all time accidentally met in my hometown. It's always given me the feeling that one day when I'm out by the riverwalk or something I'll run across Stephen King or Richard Matheson looking for a good mexican food restaurant.

Nathaniel Lambert · Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 12:59 pm Post subject: