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World building

Writing in general and suggestions on writing for Shroud.

World building

Postby christammiller on Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:17 pm

I need to ask advice on something. I am relatively new to the horror genre, and I'm struggling some with world-building. How do you handle that - do you take copious notes before you start a project, or build it in as you write and then go back and revise out inconsistencies later? Do you ever worry about whether a really major inconsistency will create a plot hole so large it can't be fixed?

I get anxious about this stuff because my time to write is so limited, and I don't want to "waste" it, which sounds irrational because no writing time is truly wasted, but there it is.

Thoughts?
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Postby Tom Piccirilli on Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:17 pm

Depends on what kind of world-building you're talking about. Is this a post-apocalyptic novel where every facet of the earth has been changed to a great degree? Or are you talking about a horror novel where things are basically like the real world except you've got a ghost chasing a guy or a sea serpent munching on trawlers?

Sometimes you need to do research/take notes to give a realistic edge to the work in areas you're not regularly associated with. I've read a lot of manuscripts that are set in New York City written by people who have never been to New York. They don't bother to do any research and so that element of the work rings false. One guy thought that subway stations were found on every street corner. That shit won't fly.

For my novel HEXES, which deals with necromancy, magic, and certain elements of the Judeo-Christian belief system, I read a lot of work dealing with both the history of magic and the practice of it. I had to learn my business so my characters could know their business.

If you're talking about plotting, I'm not someone who outlines ad nauseum. I believe that writing should be organic, the work itself should surprise the author, and allow the author to discover somehing about himself/his world/his values as he goes along.

Plot holes, dropped characters/events/situations, unrealistic scenes, etc. are always potential problems. It happens. You'll spot mistakes in your second and third drafts. If you have a good first reader, he'll undoubtedly find more weak spots that can be shored up.

It's all a part of the process.

All that said, I'm a big believer in writing as "cleanly" as possible the first time out. Some folks will tell you to just write the story or write the novel, go headfirst into it and blast through to the end. Any problems can be fixed later. I don't agree with that. I think the "messier" the writing is along the way, the harder it is to restructure and revise. Sometimes the book is such a mess that it becomes depressing and discouraging to event think about it.

But if you write sharp and clean the first time out, even if it's more difficult and even if it takes a bit more time, you'll be pleased with the results, and that will help to encourage you over the rough spots.

My opinion anyway.
Tom Piccirilli is the author of twenty novels including THE COLD SPOT, THE MIDNIGHT ROAD, THE DEAD LETTERS, and A CHOIR OF ILL CHILDREN. Learn more at: www.tompiccirilli.com
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Postby Natalie L. Sin on Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:15 pm

I keep a notebook of key things that I need to be able to look up. Timelines, for instance, are difficult for me to keep track of over a novel. I keep a record of important places, a rough outline of what the important buildings look like, and anything else that I need to not contradict in the writing. For example, if a character has siblings or where they came from. If they have a brother, you don't want them referring to themselves as an only child later on.

As for unique worlds, I say the same basic rules apply. Write down what makes your world special and any rules that apply there, but not in the world as we know it. That way any time something slips your mind, you can just crack open your special notebook and double check. :)
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Postby Phil Kuhlman on Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:58 pm

I have a mini-verse for my stories that is actually based on the ideas of guys like Lovecraft and Stephen King. I got three main cities, each city represents something of an archetype of a town. I got Ironside City, which is your big Texas town, like San Antonio or Dallas, then Dietert Creek which is my small town with a smaller population and more closely knit population, and Grackle's Nest, which is your creepy old broken down barely used town that people 'just don't like being near'.

So I like the idea of using the archetype style for making my world. Give your place a central idea and work around that. I love creating histories and points of interest about places, even if they never show up in the story they sit in my mind and help guide things. And as long as you got someone to look over your shoulder and ask questions, you really can't go wrong with whatever way you do it.
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Postby christammiller on Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:55 pm

Thanks folks. Good advice. Tom, the story is a cross between your examples - it's post-apocalyptic, but not much has changed physically; I am using real life locations. The biggest changes are in society. I have the whole thing mapped out, the different factions involved, but really what it comes down to is that I'm paranoid that I don't have enough of an understanding of either human nature or society, to be able to figure out how it would play out!

To an extent, yes, the story has to grow from the characters... but what about factions making decisions outside the characters' control? (Incidentally, the story is 3rd person limited POV from one protag. I don't think it would work as well to bring in more POVs.) Am I overthinking? I have a tendency to do that...
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Postby Phil Kuhlman on Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:58 pm

nah, that all seems pretty properly thought out to me.
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Postby Nathaniel Lambert on Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:15 pm

This is a cool topic. I like hearing about all the tools of the trade, especially from the pros.

We should put together an essay on the subject.
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Postby Tom Piccirilli on Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:36 am

but really what it comes down to is that I'm paranoid that I don't have enough of an understanding of either human nature or society, to be able to figure out how it would play out!


It might behoove you to simply jump into the story and let the characters/situations play out the way they will. Once you're "inside" the piece you'll have a clearer understanding of what you need to do to make it a strong story marked with real emotion and authentic cicumstances. There's only so much you can do from the "outside".

And remember, it doesn't have to be real, it just has to feel like it's real. In Richard Laymon's QUAKE, for instance, he has an earthquake devastate Los Angeles, and within a few hours there's mobs of folks out there raping and killing. While I personally don't think things would go into the shitter quite THAT quickly, he makes it feel real just by the force of his narrative and pacing.
Tom Piccirilli is the author of twenty novels including THE COLD SPOT, THE MIDNIGHT ROAD, THE DEAD LETTERS, and A CHOIR OF ILL CHILDREN. Learn more at: www.tompiccirilli.com
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Postby Phil Kuhlman on Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:47 am

And above all else, it's your world! You write the rules!
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Postby taerb on Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:09 pm

I am coming to this post really late, but I have to thank all of you especially Tim's thoughtful response!
I am in the last chapter of the first draft of my first novel. It is a post-apocalyptic/zombie/evil magics and vile cults tale. All of your advice is priceless!
Thanks so much!
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